I missed blogging against sexism!

Luckily (?) sexism is not a one-day-a-year thing so I guess I'm safe to blog a day late. The rest of the carnival-whatever is here.

Of course, I've had an exceptionally lucky and privileged life when it comes to feeling the effects of overt sexism. (I think the only time I was knowingly denied a job for being female was when I had a short-lived desire to be an altar server in the fifth grade.) Nobody's ever told me to my face that I couldn't do something I really wanted to because of my gender. That's not because sexism doesn't exist -- that's because I'm lucky (and quite possibly too obtuse to pick up on subtle hints).

But there's one thing that bugs me -- more a peeve, really. Especially now that I've become such a dress advocate. What is it? It's when guys come up to me and say "I like it when women wear dresses."

What?

Come again?

Now, you might think this is a quibble, because, hey, I like it when women wear dresses. Actually, no -- I like it when a woman -- one specific woman, one at a time -- comes up to me and tells me she ENJOYS wearing dresses. That is, I like it when I meet someone who shares my love of wearing dresses. I like it that someone else is enjoying something I think is enjoyable, not that an ENTIRE GENDER is conforming to my aesthetic ideal.

You might also say, "Hey, Erin, aren't there things that guys wear that you like?" And sure, I'd say. I love Jack Purcells so I know if I meet a guy wearing those that I will probably admire his taste. I know if a guy has a kickass messenger bag we could probably have an incredibly geeky gadget-stowing conversation (one that will probably last much longer than necessary), and I also enjoy the occasional ironic t-shirt. (I also have a strange attraction to Adidas Sambas, but that's just a leftover from having gone to high school in the 1980s.) But all these things are about making a connection with an individual based on mutual appreciation for an object.

But there's something about "I like it when women wear dresses" that completely irks me. Who knows, maybe it's the hangover from thousands of years of patriarchy, or a reminder that wearing dresses used to be an obligation, not a choice, but it just gives me the sneaking suspicion that maybe, just maybe, this is someone who might not see women as 100% belonging to the human race. Maybe it's because substituting almost anything else for the "wear dresses" part of the "I like it when women wear dresses" statement seems hinky. (Try it yourself. The only one I felt okay with was "I like it when women run for public office," and even that one felt weird.)

I am almost certainly overthinking this, I know. But just to be safe, if you're tempted to say something like this (for the ten guys who read this blog) how about substituting "I really like your dresses." Or "That's a great dress!" But not, under any circumstances "I wish my [wife/girlfriend/significant other/mother] wore dresses." (That one's really creepy.)

And this is certainly not a pressing ill that must be remedied before women can achieve full equality, but hey, this is a dress blog and I have to stay on topic!

This picture is from the marvelous Plan59. Go visit!

Comments

[LS]

Yeah, this seems to go along with men's praise for high heels. "I like it when women wear high heels...so that their calf muscles are strained, their chests are pushed out, and they are easily pushed over." If a toppled Barbie isn't hot, I don't know what is.

[Henriette]

Hmm, as much as I do understand your point, you really are overthinking this I think...I really have no problem with men who appreciate women looking feminine...Don't worry so much about the wording...How about celebrating gender differences? After all, we KNOW we are the smarter sex....

[Celeste]

It bothers you, it seems to me, because "I like it when women wear dresses." is clearly a normative claim, translatable, without loss of meaning, to "Women should wear dresses." This would be so offensive, on so many levels, that we have a hard time imagining men running around telling women "Women should wear dresses." But somehow it is okay if the claim is disguised as a compliment. One of the ways in which sexism disguises itself is by being complimentary and therefore beneficent. (Who, after all, doesn't want to be complimented?)

[Ms. Laaw-yuhr]

I enjoyed this blog. There is a definitely and edge of sexism in the comment! And I agree with Celeste about compliments.Count yourself lucky as having never been on the receiving end of overt sexism. I've been inapproprately hit on by a male superior in almost every job I've ever had -- and not due to my superior attractiveness, inappropriate work dress, or flirtiness. I think it has something to do with my double Ds.

[Sarah from Oz]

I don't think you're overthinking too much, Erin. There is something slightly creepy about that.Believe me, Henriette, I look feminine in jeans or trousers too. Depending on your definition of feminine, I guess - there's no doubting I'm female.I think some of the "creepy" factor comes from an implication that one *should* be doing something (wearing skirts or heels, running or not running for office, etc) because one is a woman, rather than because one wishes to. I wear skirts when I want to. I wear trousers when I want to. I think there are styles of both that are flattering to me, and I object to the idea that I might be wearing something to please someone I don't even know.Perhaps it's a feeling that something I do for myself is somehow being hijacked for the pleasure of someone else. What I wear is *my* prerogative, dammit! How dare someone suggest that I do this because I'm a girl!(Also, some men look fine in a kilt - skirts are not just for girls!)Oh, and Laaw-yuhr; I've been hit on by the immigration officer processing my passport. Inappropriate? no kidding.

[Thoughts on Life and Millinery.]

I LOVE it when men come up to me and say "I love it when women wear hats!" Of course, both menfolk and womenfolk have worn hats for centuries, and often hats of remarkably similar style (although I wish the boys would GET OVER baseball caps, come on, buy a fedora, please! I will if you will!)"You look wonderful in that dress""You look wonderful in that hat""I love it when women wear hats"All appropriate phases. Repeat as needed. Make my day!

[The Momma Chronicles]

At the risk of offending the 10 men who might be reading (hello!) I wonder if we're giving men too much credit? Men don't run around disguising preferences as compliments, unless they're talking about the bedroom. (Honey, you were GREAT last night! = Please please keep doing that!) They see something they like and they blurt it out.I think, 9 times out of 10, a man saying he likes it when women wear dresses means he enjoys it when women wear dresses. No hidden agenda, no buried meaning.And even if it is a preference, I'm 99% positive his list of umbrella'd items included in the comment begins and ends with clothing. If you were to retort, "Oh, and I suppose I should be barefoot and pregnant at home baking bread all day for you?!!!" he'd say, "huh? Where'd that come from? I just said I like it when you wear dresses."Gotta love men, eh?

[Hannah]

Hmm I'd never really thought of it like that. I've had the same thing a few times, and I've always taken it as a compliment with all the lack of tact that usually accompanies male speech!What I don't like is when men hit on me and say "oh you're 22, I thought you were 16/17" ... that worries me ... so your only interested if I'm 17 are you?!

[Laura V]

Hannah -- I think it's plenty possible to celebrate gender differences while still saying "hey! That, there? that's kinda creepy and inappropriate."I think a lot of it is thoughtlessness, true. But it's not ok for anyone to be thoughtlessly inappropriate -- and a lot of times, particularly vile kinds of people hide behind what gets called "typical male thoughtlessness" or "lack of tact". Genuinely good guys will want to correct their inadvertent creepiness; genuinely bad ones don't want anyone correcting men, ever, because then it'll be obvious who the bad ones are....And I hear you on the "oh, I thought you were 17" thing. Ick!

[Nora]

Yes, I think Celeste nailed it; well done! Perhaps it's a sort of "prescriptive compliment" (akin to prescriptive suggestions, like "you should grow your hair long," which I used to get a lot from men, who didn't realize that walking around a city with long blond hair is like walking around a bullfighting ring with a red cape. My usual response was "if you want to play with long hair, grow your own!") I have to say I love it when I see a woman happily wearing a dress for several reasons. One is that I know they probably FEEL great; they often have that kind of insouciant look about them that I think is partly due to not having a crotch seam (and being able to get dressed in seconds). Another is that I just don't see women wearing dresses all that much, so it just makes life more interesting. I haven't commented much lately - so busy - but I still read your blog every day and love love love it. I wonder whether you could give some advice about Jack Purcells: first, is it wrong for me to buy the brown pair (with the pink soles! how can I resist?) AND the green pair (green! ditto!)? And, do you have any tips for keeping canvas shoes from getting that canvas-sneaker funkiness? Can I stuff them with newspaper or something, like I do with my long boots? YOUR advice much appreciated - Oh, and here are some shoes I stumbled upon on Zappos I thought you might like - they also come in ORANGE:http://www.zappos.com/n/p/p/7208389/c/8418.htmlCheers!

[Stacy]

I just recently found your blog, so "hi there!".I am one of those daft women that can't seem to figure out if a man is hitting on me or just giving me a compliment. I would probably take that as a compliment and not as an inappropriate remark. However, that doesnt mean it wasnt inappropriate...its just how I would take it.And I have been hit on by my boss before, so I have felt the burden of inappropriate sexual actions from men. Ewww, ewww, ewww.I think men overall like women to look feminine, which is dressing in typical "girl clothes" (dresses, skirts, etc.). You can wear jeans and look female, but femininity is typically defined as the dress-wearing, soft-spoken wife of the 50's.I'm not quite there yet. I can look feminine but once I open my mouth that ideal is greatly diminished. ;)

[Lisette]

I'm not a guy but I can translate for them: "I like women in dresses." would translate into "You look pretty and approachable." in Womensworld. Guys don't think in the plural they are oaffishly self centered in ways that we can manipulate and use against them. They are also fearful of rejection so phrasing something in the abstract gives them an out if you realize that they are hitting on you and take offense. My response to something like that is along the lines of "Really?, I like guys in lingerie." You must, however, be able to keep a straight face and not blush. I was in the Air Force, I had a LOT of practice.

[Alison Cummins]

Im a woman, so no matter what I do or say or wear Im acting like a woman. That is, acting like me. That is, feminine. So if describing a woman as feminine is redundant to the point of ridiculous, sort of like saying I have determined that this particular marketed bottled water is wet, I think people really mean something else when they say that. I think they mean something like putting in so much effort into overdetermining her womanhood that she clearly thinks her genitalia are the most interesting thing about her. Though very people would actually think it in those terms, never mind say it out loud. I think that wearing dresses and wearing your hair long is probably a marker for something like decorative, and wont try to move in on my turf. To me, thats not a compliment. Its a sign that Im doing something very, very wrong. Im totally with Erin on this one.

[mjb]

When I worked in an office with mostly men I only ever received compliments on my attire when I wore dresses. Only one time did a co-worker cross the line from "you look nice in that dress" to "you should wear dresses more" and I made sure to inform him where that line was.

[LJ]

I don't have any comments on the "to wear or not be offended when complimented on wearing a dress" issue, but I'm *so* glad you know Threadless t-shirts. The Threadless 10 buck sale is my guilty pleasure.

[Pamela]

I've long since accepted that many men are sexist and I still think there is a huge double standard. I think we women are strong enough to handle it and that things are much better than when I started working.However, I'm old enough that I'm thrilled for any compliments I get from males. At my age I assume the compliments are genuine and the guy is not hitting on me. I was happy for a month after two young men in the same week thought I was in my 30s; I'm 53. I too, love to wear hats and I find I usually get positive feedback, even in places like airports from total strangers. It's amazing how many people, male and female, will go out of their way to tell you they like a hat...and really a hat is something both sexes wear, but the styles are defintely sex-stereotyped. Since I live in a cold climate, and my ears freeze, I rarely go out without a hat, usually a beret or a wonderful wool jersey cloche I bought in France. I get the most compliments on my big fluffy fox hat. My excuse in the summer is that I am very pale, so I prefer to wear a hat rather than gunk up with sunscreen. I just don't think most guys think about what they are saying that much...it's a gut reaction. Perhaps it's simply that wearing a dress or a hat is nowadays out of the ordinary and thus provokes comment.I think that if a man told me he likes women wearing dresses, I might respond, "I like men in kilts!" with a wink and a nod, of course, to gage the reaction. What's not to like about a man in a kilt?

[Aimee]

"I wonder whether you could give some advice about Jack Purcells: first, is it wrong for me to buy the brown pair (with the pink soles! how can I resist?)"I hope it's not wrong because I have these exact shoes! :) They are wonderful and surprisingly go with nearly everything.

[Aara]

I agree with Celeste. "I like it when women wear dresses" is not a compliment to a particular woman, but a generalizing statement of preference for how all women should dress. It lays down a law that is objectifying and denies individuality.You are not overthinking this.

[lorinda]

I'm going to weigh in on the other side and say that I like it when men wear suits (unless of course they are PDK leisure suits in robin's egg blue), and I'm not afraid to tell them. Call me a sexist, I don't mind.

[Robinson]

Personally, I don't think 'compliments' are appropriate at all in the work place unless it's, 'hey Sally, great work on the Reynolds account.' I could go on and on and take apart a lot of things said here but I'm going to sit on my feminist hands.

[Claire]

I didn't have a chance to read through all the comments, but I just wanted to share something with Erin. When I was in 5th grade my diocese decided to allow girls to be alter servers. I promptly became one simply because I had not been allowed to the year before and felt it was my duty to fulfill the dreams of all the girls who had been denied before then. So I did it for you, Erin!

[Dance]

Hmmm....it's not so much that I like it when men wear suits as that I've never seen a man who didn't look better in a suit, to the extent I've seen suits utterly transform a crew of 18 year old nerds. But I'm pretty sure that's more about tailoring and looking put-together than it is the look tapping into my need for a true patriarch.Whereas yeah, I'm with Erin that liking dresses and long hair often comes out of a subconscious preference for stereotypical femininity. Not something worth stressing over every day, but a great point for her to bring up on a dress blog for blog-against-sexism day.High heels, though...I suspect women project more confidence when wearing heels, so I'll partially absolve men on that one.

[Thoughts on Life and Millinery.]

Back to the kilts...still thinking about men in kilts. Oh yeah, even if the guy is late senior citizen and 60 lbs over weight, I'm zeroing in on him to tell him how great he looks in kilts.And that I DO wish men would wear kilts more often. From the moment they begin to walk until they keel over and die. Kilts...I could go on and on....oh, and I wear them too.

[mamafrog]

Maybe grwoing up in the 60's and 70's colors my view of things--but that was sexist sounding to me too. Though I will give the person the benefit of the doubt that it was not meant in the "really creepy back off I have a taser and I'm not afraid to use it way". I really did run up against quite a bit of that in my younger days, from a dirty minded priest who tried to grope me to overt attutudes from male workers to dumbass assumptions about women from some of my male relatives, believe it or not! (My father would never let me use a power mower because girls didn't do that kind of thing, I just never told him I was using the power tools in the garage.) Thank god for women's lib and the right to feel I could say what I wanted to correct these ideas. Definately taught my children differently, especially since my girls are very well endowed and run into that kind of thing all the time, and my boys better not repeat something like that out loud around me!You just can't go wrong with the old Church Lady stare back at someone like that, and then saying in a very clear and loud voice--"You know, I like it when men wear dresses too."

[oracle]

I dont want to generalize against men. And I think, like Erin, Ive also been very lucky. In my case, several men Ive been close to for most of my life would be quick to see on their own the problem Erin identifies with a man saying, I like it when women wear dresses. I couldnt imagine any of these dear men thinking that they had a right to prescribe what women, or anyone else, should wear or do or be, for that matter. I also think that these individuals would be upset to see themselves limited by somebody elses definition of what men are, just as they, as men, dont want to do that to women.Come to think of it, one of my longest-term male friends recently gave a performance at his CD launch, and showed up on-stage in a plain, dark blue knee-length skirt. It may have been a kilt; I cant remember now. He wore an old blue postal workers shirt on top. He, and the other male friends to whom I am referring, are primarily heterosexual, by the way.I agree with many of the comments here, and particularly love alison cummins remark about how describing (or rating) the femininity of a woman is as redundant and absurd as describing (or rating) the wetness of a body of water. Ive also thought along these lines, alison. By definition, anything a woman does is feminine! And a man, masculine which includes, for some men, being aware and respectful and wearing skirts at times!I look out into the world and see so much time spent on discussing what women should or should not do or be. And so little of the same applied to men. A problem that was well identified in the 1970s (if not also before that), still roaring along today.I love your post today, Erin. And I dont think youre overthinking this stuff at all. I think youre perceiving a symptom of sexism that is both subtle and real, and youve well illuminated it with your usual freshness and precision.